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 Post subject: VIR Runoffs Qualifying
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:33 am 
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I posted this in another group, but probably should have just shared it here (and will on the facebook page)
Some things for all of us in FP & HP to consider:
three 18 minute sessions
50+ cars
3s per car to clear grid = 2.5 minutes
out lap on a 3 mile track = ~ 2.75-3 minutes
-> NO clear laps for anyone, and probably about 6 hot laps a session (after out lap)

Because of this a clear lap will be rare, precious and possibly singular. So -
A fast slow class car that finally gets a good lap opportunity is way more likely to stuff it in on a slow fast class car in the 2nd half of the lap.
That same slow class car is way less likely to compromise that one lap to let a faster class car sneak by safely.
Thus the probability of contact and incidents will go up, reducing minutes of at speed track time even further.

There is a real potential for a shit show in qualifying...

Now I know this reads like a total bitch session, and yeah it sort of is, but...if we at least understand the factors above, we can make an intentional effort to keep our cool, be courteous and not forget that this is an amateur event.
I apologize right now for an F cars that I get in the way of, and will do my best to not do that. I also will do my very best to be polite to any cars that I find a reason to pass in the Q sessions.
Hopefully we can share this sentiment around our respective qualifying groups and build a consensus on such an approach.
It would really suck if we ended up with more Yellow and Black Q time than Green...

Short version - qualifying at VIR will be a busy mess. Let's stay calm and work together to keep it clean, fast and fun.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:41 pm 
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You are absolutely right about a potential problem with qualifying given the two classes on the track at the same time. And of course the slower class, H, gets to go on track last every time and doesn't get any extra time at the end of the session. During the recent regional Prodfest race at VIR I had a couple of E Prod cars blow by me at the start and somewhere on the first lap and they added five seconds to my lap times. I gapped them what I thought was enough and then quickly caught them again and couldn't get by. It sucks, and it will apply to some of the F cars at the Runoffs.

There is only very limited time for the qualifying sessions, but with the potential of lost time due to FCY or BFA laps, maybe we should ask for two separate 9 minute sessions instead of one combined 18 minute session. Just throwing that out for comment.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:40 pm 
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Ron Bartell wrote:
You are absolutely right about a potential problem with qualifying given the two classes on the track at the same time. And of course the slower class, H, gets to go on track last every time and doesn't get any extra time at the end of the session.


From the supp regs 5.8: For the second and following qualifying sessions, the group will be gridded by the cumulative fastest times from the previous session(s), regardless of class. Emphasis added.

so at least the fastest HP car is not behind the slowest FP. I think they did this at Sonoma. This doesn't help the last guy that goes out, he still is at a 2-3 min disadvantage compared to the fastest guy. Maybe they should inverse the field to make it even time-wise for everyone :) :)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:20 pm 
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BLinn wrote:
From the supp regs 5.8: For the second and following qualifying sessions, the group will be gridded by the cumulative fastest times from the previous session(s), regardless of class. Emphasis added.
Thanks - Good to know. Just going by what was done in the past. I should have read the supps.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:14 pm 
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Or write a request to split HP and FP into separate run groups and combine T3 with someone?? 15 cars is not enough to warrant a standalone run group. It's the 8th lowest entry count of the 28 classes... not sure who you put them with, but that makes sense too. H is the 4th largest class, they should get their own qualifying group IMHO.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:36 am 
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We could always fix it by going back to having to qualify from your division. Cut the numbers that are there and then we would have the fastest cars on track and the rest stay home.

Sorry I couldn't resist


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:56 am 
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For info, I sent a note to Costa Dunias asking for each of the Production classes to have their own session alone, and pointing out that if we combine two of the classes for two of the sessions, each class will have one session alone. I don't know what wisdom was used to determine that one production class should have all three alone while the other two should have none alone. Has E prod been unfairly treated in the past and they are trying to make up for it?

Anyway, Costa got back to me and said that they are considering my request, but there was very little likelihood of it happening. If some of you agree with the approach you might want to let him know about it.
COSTA DUNIAS <CDUNIAS@msn.com>

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:33 am 
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So your thinking 58 EP/HP in one session and 19 FP in another is a good idea Ron?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:06 am 
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zChris wrote:
So your thinking 58 EP/HP in one session and 19 FP in another is a good idea Ron?


It sure is a better idea than BSpec in the Prod group at Majors.

But yes IMO. The larger speed differential between the classes makes it a bit less likely to get conflict between the two. It's just easier to work your way through each other.

However I think that Ron's point is to get at least one session for each class in their own group.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:49 am 
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chois wrote:
zChris wrote:
So your thinking 58 EP/HP in one session and 19 FP in another is a good idea Ron?


It sure is a better idea than BSpec in the Prod group at Majors.

But yes IMO. The larger speed differential between the classes makes it a bit less likely to get conflict between the two. It's just easier to work your way through each other.

However I think that Ron's point is to get at least one session for each class in their own group.

conversely, the speed differential can hurt when there are so many cars on course at the same time that you can't get a clean lap due to traffic in the turns. Yes most of the HP cars can turn just as fast as an EP or FP car, but there's always outliers in every group. a slow HP will be 30 sec off the pace of a fast EP, so that person will be the bottleneck for nearly everyone every few laps.

.... there's never an ideal solution when you have more classes than you do run groups...

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